10 Credit Questions and Answers at CreditMattersBlog.com (October 27, 2008)

As I have said before, I can see how my readers find CreditMattersBlog.com. I don’t collect any personal information, but I can see search terms that people use to find the site. This information is like the center of Lifesavers candies. Or doughnut holes. Rather than letting them fall by the wayside, I figure that I should put these search queries to good use. Here are the game rules: I will edit search queries for syntax purposes. Otherwise, I will leave them alone. I’ll also phrase queries in the form of a question whenever possible. By request, these Q&As will now be published whenever I have received 10 questions through Google, Yahoo, and AOL searches.Q: What good does it do me if my FICO is over 800?A: Not much. But at 800 and above, you do join a select group. Just 13% of the population have a score of 800 or higher. But, by and large, a 760 score will do just about anything an 800 score can do. That said, I’d feel more comfortable with a score of 780 in this crazy credit environment. I’m suggesting that 780 is the new 760. Who knows if I’m right, though. –Q: IS A FICO SCORE OF 715 ENOUGH TO GET A CREDIT CARD?A: I had to take this question. This is either GEORGE, a prolific online message poster, or a relative asking the question. Generally speaking, 715 is a decent score. However, it’s still below the median FICO score of 723. In other words, 715 is still in the bottom half of those who have a FICO score. For the most part, assuming you have a clean credit report, you would likely get an approval with a 715 FICO score. That said, there are tons of things that go into approvals. Do you have a lot of recent inquiries? A lot of new accounts? Utilization too high? In a vacuum 715 should get the job done. But it will depend on a host of other things as well. –Q: FICO 689 able to finance BMW? A: Excellent timing for this question. I have a friend who just bought her first BMW on Friday couldn’t have happened to a nicer gal, either. She used BMW Financial Services for financing. She put down one-third of the purchase price in cash. BMW Financial Services financed the rest. The car is three years old 2006 model. She got an interest rate of 3.96%. BMW Financial Services pulled her Equifax report — and nothing else. She had a 691 FICO score. Is a 689 good enough to get you financed for a BMW? It would seem so. But, just as my previous answer stated, there is more to an approval than just a score. Debt-to-income ratio will also play a part in the approval process as well. –Q: How to bring up credit score from 780 to 800?A: I’m in the same boat. One of my scores is right around 780. The answer for me is to stop applying for new cards. I’m being dinged because my average age of credit history is just four years. By not applying for new credit, my overall age will continue to move higher. As it does, my score will climb as well. Still, there is always more than one way to skin a cat. While average age is my bugaboo, your problem could be something different. My advice is to read the story I did on working your FICO score link here during the credit crunch. That might help you figure out where you need to do some work. Finally, a 780 score is excellent. You’re golden. Getting to 800 is just for bragging rights. Nothing more. –Q: Cash advance from American Express at my bank?A: I am sure you can do a cash advance from your bank. I’ve never done a cash advance, though, so don’t quote me. You’d likely have more luck just using an ATM machine. Of course, you’d need a PIN from American Express. Still, let me make a recommendation: try to stay away from cash advances. Cash advances raise red flags with card companies. If you’re tapping cash at 24%, a card company probably has good reason to wonder what’s going on. American Express will wonder if you’re strapped for cash. If you’re strapped for cash, then you’re likely a high-risk customer to American Express. If you’re a high risk to American Express, it’s going to reduce your credit or exposure limit substantially or cancel your card altogether. I’d stay away from cash advances if at all possible. Indeed, I would not do cash advances with any credit card company. –Q: What happens to credit rating after bankruptcy?A: Here’s the thing. Most people who go bankrupt already have trashed scores. That’s because they’ve likely been late on a slew of debt obligations or defaulted on their debts altogether. Much of the score damage has already been done before the consumer steps into the bankruptcy attorney’s office. The bankruptcy will remain on your credit report for ten years. The bad accounts and history, which led to your demise, will remain on your credit report for seven years. Ultimately, you can recover from a bankruptcy. Indeed, it’s not unusual for people to have scores of 700 within three years of a bankruptcy. Still, there will always be some credit-card companies that will not approve you — even if your score is respectable.The key to recovering after bankruptcy is changing any bad habits that landed you there in the first place. When you get new cards after bankruptcy — and there will be plenty of offers trust me — make it a habit to pay those bills in full. Develop that good habit and you’ll eventually be just fine. –Q: Why does having good credit matter?A: My entire site is devoted to this question. Start back in July, when I launched this blog, and read from there. You’ll likely need strong credit to land your first job and your second job, and your third job, and your…. Employers are increasingly pulling credit reports to vet would-be employees. Additionally, if you decide to attend graduate school after college, you may have a need for a private loan to help finance part of that education. If that’s the case, you’ll need good credit to land that loan. Beyond that, there will be mortgages and auto loans. In other words, the need for good credit is never ending. A person who doesn’t understand or appreciate the need for good credit is an idiot, indeed. –Q: What happens when creditors increase my limit?A: A couple of things happen. One, it gives you more spending power. It also helps your utilization ratio assuming you don’t ramp up your spending. If your utilization ratio goes down in a meaningful way, because your credit limit goes up, you should get a FICO score increase unless your utilization ratios are already so low that a credit limit increase doesn’t help in that area. I would not use a credit-limit increase as a license to go out and spend. That’s what fools do. Instead, welcome the increase and let it help your utilization ratios. –Q: Get a credit increase from Bank of America.A: If you are interested in a credit limit increase from Bank of America, you can do that by going to your online account. There you will find a button that says ‘request a credit line increase.’ Unless otherwise notified, the credit limit request will result in a soft inquiry — which will not hurt your credit score. Bank of America says that it will notify you if it needs to do a hard inquiry. Therefore, credit-limit-increase requests with Bank of America are soft — unless Bank of America tells you otherwise.–Q: If you don’t use credit will you lose your credit report?A: If you never get any credit, you won’t have a credit report that can be scored. It will be empty. It won’t house any information. Now, if you do have cards, but never use them, the cards will continue to stay on your credit report. And as long as the cards remain open, the accounts will remain on the credit report indefinitely. More than likely, though, these accounts will eventually be closed for inactivity. Once they are closed, they will remain on your report for up to 10 years. It’s theoretically possible that all of your closed accounts could fall off your report and you’d be left with an empty report. The key is to get some accounts and keep them open. Credit Matters BlogREADER ALERT: For more credit questions and answers, the entire 10 Credit Questions & Answers index can be found here link.

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0 thoughts on “10 Credit Questions and Answers at CreditMattersBlog.com (October 27, 2008)

  1. I do have more Google traffic as a result of these Q&As. That's not surprising. These are the kinds of questions that regular people are asking outside of this forum.

  2. I never really understood the concept of a cash advance. I’m sure there are good reasons for using it, but the terms aren’t very favorable. If a cash advance is there for emergency purposes, then fine. Otherwise, I wouldn’t bank on it, either.BTW, an 800 FICO does a body good. 😉

  3. Mark, these Q&As are generated from Google search queries that I receive. I don't get any business related questions. Pretty amazing, actually. If I get any biz questions, I will be sure to use them, though.

  4. Cash advances are to be avoided. If you’re being robbed at gun point, then do a cash advance. Otherwise, avoid.

  5. Could you answer please,what happens to your credit score after bankruptcy,if all accounts are in good standing at the time of filing,but included in bankruptcy….If you don’t know,I’l tell you:there will be a single derogatory item-bankruptcy and score will be 680 to 700…

  6. Anon, good luck with that. I bet it’s very tough to get that trick to work. Here’s why: your BK attorney, when you first meet him or her, will immediately tell you to stop paying your bills. If you listen to that attorney, your credit report will be peppered with lates.Assuming that you continue to pay your bills, from filing through discharge, I suspect it’s possible that you could make it through the process without accumulating lates. I have no experience in this area, given that I have never filed for BK, but I’m sure that I could get a BK attorney to come over here and look at your post — and then weigh in on it.I think I’ll do just that.Thanks for the comment, Anon.

  7. Just sent a note to a BK attorney who reads my blog. We’ll see if this person can weigh in.

  8. Sorry…okay weighing in. You have credtitors who have different standings. For example if you’re paying alimony and child support your ex is numero uno…no matter. Then you have the trustee’s fees, SLs, taxes…all non-dischargeable debt. (taxes CAN be discharged but it is difficult. SLs are virtually impossible)The low man on the totem pole is the unsecured creditor…mainly CC debt. You can continue paying your unsecured creditors until the day you file. The amount now is less than $600.00. IF you pay ANY unsecured creditor more than $600 in the 90 days before bk…the trustee will be taking names and numbers. It is known as ‘preferential pmts.’ But it is somewhat counterintuitive to pay unsecureds debts that will be discharged in bk.Not having lates pre-bk filing will not be a big boon post-discharge. If you think the discharged creditor will love you more post-bk….don’t be delusional. Your bk trade line will be just as bad as the debtor/filer who had lates. It will be just a tad better than those who had COs and judgments.So basically if you continue to feed the monster that drove you to bk….you are, in essence, throwing good money after bad.Now this is not true of secured debt. If you want to keep your assets that are the underlying collateral for a secured debt you must keep those pmts current.The idea that one can file bk, discharge high unsecured debt, get a fresh start all in unison is not within the realm of reality.Remember it is the ‘fresh start’ not the ‘head start.’I hope this adequately covers the question at hand.

  9. What I meant to convey is that idea that one can file bk, discharge high unsecured debt, get a fresh start and KEEP a high or even a good FICO score all in unison is not within the realm of reality.Even if you DO come out with a 600+ FICO you will still have a bk tradeline with a date attached to it….that, depending on what Chapter you filed, remains for 7-10 years.I personally know many with 2 years post-bk rebuilding achieving decent FICOs still being declined due to a bk tradeline.I have never seen anyone post bk discharge with a 680+ FICO….or even heard rumor until the post above. It is highly suspect, IMO.

  10. Manatees, thanks for those two posts. Anon, there you have it. That’s the explanation from the bankruptcy attorney I was talking about.

  11. Thanks for the explanation…but just think a little bit:what is better 20 derogatory items,if someone not current with the payments,or just one single derogatory item-bankruptcy?…Much easier to rebuild credit having single derog. item,than twenty of them..right?And as you know no IIB things can be reported to credit bureaus.And I do not think is secret for everybody,that bankruptcy ”tradeline” can be deleted from credit reports….

  12. Anon, of course IIB items are reported to credit bureaus. Not sure what you’re talking about.Elaborate a little more, please.

  13. Relief could be coming to a credit report near you. That’s right. Credit-reporting agencies have been ordered to deal with discharged debt appropriately. The agencies have until tomorrow to get compliant. From the Wall Street Journal: Dealing With Debt That Refuses to DieA recent court order requires the three major credit-reporting bureaus — Experian Group Ltd., Equifax Inc. and TransUnion LLC — to clean up the credit files of millions of consumers who have filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy. The problem: Old debts, which are typically forgiven by the courts in a bankruptcy filing, are still being reported as active on many consumers’ credit reports.The judge for the case, David O. Carter of the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California, has given the bureaus until Oct. 1 to revamp their systems. Experian and TransUnion say they have already updated their credit files to be compliant with the court order, while Equifax declined to comment. TransUnion also sent notices to some customers saying they ‘may experience a slight change’ to their credit scores if any of their accounts are updated because of a bankruptcy.

  14. No, Anon. That’s not what it means. You are misinterpreting it. What’s happening is that creditors are not reporting the accounts properly. Instead of showing them as IIB and closed, many are being reported as open and NOT IIB. That’s what the problem is.The credit bureaus need to make sure that IIB’d items are coded that way.

  15. The credit bureaus need to make sure, in other words, that all tradelines are coded as closed and IIB.

  16. Do you really believe 20 IIB, -0- balance Trade Lines are not derogatory? If so you need to continue your credit repair studies. AS stated earlier they’re better than COs and lates PLUS the bk TL and also the judgement TLs that haven’t been vacated yet….but not by 100 FICO points.Deleting a bk as a public record is getting tougher and tougher due to the accessibility of PACER. It is easy to validate a bk PR if you have someone’s name and SS#.Three years ago more people got lucky…I haven’t seen more than one in 2008. In 2009 creditors are almost assuming an applicant has a bk in the woodpile. So it is pure BS that bks are easily deleted from people’s CRs.I totally agree with CM’s on point explanation of the judge’s order to the three CRAs.I would really like to see someone’s true FICO at 680 immediately post bk discharge…it would be a first in my career!

  17. I obviously agree with Manatees here. Also, it typically takes at least 3 years for a person to recover from a BK — in terms of FICO score. I’ve seen friends reach 700 about three years out. That seems to be about the earliest I’ve seen it.

10 Credit Questions and Answers at CreditMattersBlog.com (October 27, 2008)

As I have said before, I can see how my readers find CreditMattersBlog.com. I don’t collect any personal information, but I can see search terms that people use to find the site. This information is like the center of Lifesavers candies. Or doughnut holes. Rather than letting them fall by the wayside, I figure that I should put these search queries to good use. Here are the game rules: I will edit search queries for syntax purposes. Otherwise, I will leave them alone. I’ll also phrase queries in the form of a question whenever possible. By request, these Q&As will now be published whenever I have received 10 questions through Google, Yahoo, and AOL searches.Q: What good does it do me if my FICO is over 800?A: Not much. But at 800 and above, you do join a select group. Just 13% of the population have a score of 800 or higher. But, by and large, a 760 score will do just about anything an 800 score can do. That said, I’d feel more comfortable with a score of 780 in this crazy credit environment. I’m suggesting that 780 is the new 760. Who knows if I’m right, though. –Q: IS A FICO SCORE OF 715 ENOUGH TO GET A CREDIT CARD?A: I had to take this question. This is either GEORGE, a prolific online message poster, or a relative asking the question. Generally speaking, 715 is a decent score. However, it’s still below the median FICO score of 723. In other words, 715 is still in the bottom half of those who have a FICO score. For the most part, assuming you have a clean credit report, you would likely get an approval with a 715 FICO score. That said, there are tons of things that go into approvals. Do you have a lot of recent inquiries? A lot of new accounts? Utilization too high? In a vacuum 715 should get the job done. But it will depend on a host of other things as well. –Q: FICO 689 able to finance BMW? A: Excellent timing for this question. I have a friend who just bought her first BMW on Friday couldn’t have happened to a nicer gal, either. She used BMW Financial Services for financing. She put down one-third of the purchase price in cash. BMW Financial Services financed the rest. The car is three years old 2006 model. She got an interest rate of 3.96%. BMW Financial Services pulled her Equifax report — and nothing else. She had a 691 FICO score. Is a 689 good enough to get you financed for a BMW? It would seem so. But, just as my previous answer stated, there is more to an approval than just a score. Debt-to-income ratio will also play a part in the approval process as well. –Q: How to bring up credit score from 780 to 800?A: I’m in the same boat. One of my scores is right around 780. The answer for me is to stop applying for new cards. I’m being dinged because my average age of credit history is just four years. By not applying for new credit, my overall age will continue to move higher. As it does, my score will climb as well. Still, there is always more than one way to skin a cat. While average age is my bugaboo, your problem could be something different. My advice is to read the story I did on working your FICO score link here during the credit crunch. That might help you figure out where you need to do some work. Finally, a 780 score is excellent. You’re golden. Getting to 800 is just for bragging rights. Nothing more. –Q: Cash advance from American Express at my bank?A: I am sure you can do a cash advance from your bank. I’ve never done a cash advance, though, so don’t quote me. You’d likely have more luck just using an ATM machine. Of course, you’d need a PIN from American Express. Still, let me make a recommendation: try to stay away from cash advances. Cash advances raise red flags with card companies. If you’re tapping cash at 24%, a card company probably has good reason to wonder what’s going on. American Express will wonder if you’re strapped for cash. If you’re strapped for cash, then you’re likely a high-risk customer to American Express. If you’re a high risk to American Express, it’s going to reduce your credit or exposure limit substantially or cancel your card altogether. I’d stay away from cash advances if at all possible. Indeed, I would not do cash advances with any credit card company. –Q: What happens to credit rating after bankruptcy?A: Here’s the thing. Most people who go bankrupt already have trashed scores. That’s because they’ve likely been late on a slew of debt obligations or defaulted on their debts altogether. Much of the score damage has already been done before the consumer steps into the bankruptcy attorney’s office. The bankruptcy will remain on your credit report for ten years. The bad accounts and history, which led to your demise, will remain on your credit report for seven years. Ultimately, you can recover from a bankruptcy. Indeed, it’s not unusual for people to have scores of 700 within three years of a bankruptcy. Still, there will always be some credit-card companies that will not approve you — even if your score is respectable.The key to recovering after bankruptcy is changing any bad habits that landed you there in the first place. When you get new cards after bankruptcy — and there will be plenty of offers trust me — make it a habit to pay those bills in full. Develop that good habit and you’ll eventually be just fine. –Q: Why does having good credit matter?A: My entire site is devoted to this question. Start back in July, when I launched this blog, and read from there. You’ll likely need strong credit to land your first job and your second job, and your third job, and your…. Employers are increasingly pulling credit reports to vet would-be employees. Additionally, if you decide to attend graduate school after college, you may have a need for a private loan to help finance part of that education. If that’s the case, you’ll need good credit to land that loan. Beyond that, there will be mortgages and auto loans. In other words, the need for good credit is never ending. A person who doesn’t understand or appreciate the need for good credit is an idiot, indeed. –Q: What happens when creditors increase my limit?A: A couple of things happen. One, it gives you more spending power. It also helps your utilization ratio assuming you don’t ramp up your spending. If your utilization ratio goes down in a meaningful way, because your credit limit goes up, you should get a FICO score increase unless your utilization ratios are already so low that a credit limit increase doesn’t help in that area. I would not use a credit-limit increase as a license to go out and spend. That’s what fools do. Instead, welcome the increase and let it help your utilization ratios. –Q: Get a credit increase from Bank of America.A: If you are interested in a credit limit increase from Bank of America, you can do that by going to your online account. There you will find a button that says ‘request a credit line increase.’ Unless otherwise notified, the credit limit request will result in a soft inquiry — which will not hurt your credit score. Bank of America says that it will notify you if it needs to do a hard inquiry. Therefore, credit-limit-increase requests with Bank of America are soft — unless Bank of America tells you otherwise.–Q: If you don’t use credit will you lose your credit report?A: If you never get any credit, you won’t have a credit report that can be scored. It will be empty. It won’t house any information. Now, if you do have cards, but never use them, the cards will continue to stay on your credit report. And as long as the cards remain open, the accounts will remain on the credit report indefinitely. More than likely, though, these accounts will eventually be closed for inactivity. Once they are closed, they will remain on your report for up to 10 years. It’s theoretically possible that all of your closed accounts could fall off your report and you’d be left with an empty report. The key is to get some accounts and keep them open. Credit Matters BlogREADER ALERT: For more credit questions and answers, the entire 10 Credit Questions & Answers index can be found here link.

This entry was posted in Uncategorized by . Bookmark the permalink.

0 thoughts on “10 Credit Questions and Answers at CreditMattersBlog.com (October 27, 2008)

  1. I do have more Google traffic as a result of these Q&As. That's not surprising. These are the kinds of questions that regular people are asking outside of this forum.

  2. I never really understood the concept of a cash advance. I’m sure there are good reasons for using it, but the terms aren’t very favorable. If a cash advance is there for emergency purposes, then fine. Otherwise, I wouldn’t bank on it, either.BTW, an 800 FICO does a body good. 😉

  3. Mark, these Q&As are generated from Google search queries that I receive. I don't get any business related questions. Pretty amazing, actually. If I get any biz questions, I will be sure to use them, though.

  4. Could you answer please,what happens to your credit score after bankruptcy,if all accounts are in good standing at the time of filing,but included in bankruptcy….If you don’t know,I’l tell you:there will be a single derogatory item-bankruptcy and score will be 680 to 700…

  5. Anon, good luck with that. I bet it’s very tough to get that trick to work. Here’s why: your BK attorney, when you first meet him or her, will immediately tell you to stop paying your bills. If you listen to that attorney, your credit report will be peppered with lates.Assuming that you continue to pay your bills, from filing through discharge, I suspect it’s possible that you could make it through the process without accumulating lates. I have no experience in this area, given that I have never filed for BK, but I’m sure that I could get a BK attorney to come over here and look at your post — and then weigh in on it.I think I’ll do just that.Thanks for the comment, Anon.

  6. Sorry…okay weighing in. You have credtitors who have different standings. For example if you’re paying alimony and child support your ex is numero uno…no matter. Then you have the trustee’s fees, SLs, taxes…all non-dischargeable debt. (taxes CAN be discharged but it is difficult. SLs are virtually impossible)The low man on the totem pole is the unsecured creditor…mainly CC debt. You can continue paying your unsecured creditors until the day you file. The amount now is less than $600.00. IF you pay ANY unsecured creditor more than $600 in the 90 days before bk…the trustee will be taking names and numbers. It is known as ‘preferential pmts.’ But it is somewhat counterintuitive to pay unsecureds debts that will be discharged in bk.Not having lates pre-bk filing will not be a big boon post-discharge. If you think the discharged creditor will love you more post-bk….don’t be delusional. Your bk trade line will be just as bad as the debtor/filer who had lates. It will be just a tad better than those who had COs and judgments.So basically if you continue to feed the monster that drove you to bk….you are, in essence, throwing good money after bad.Now this is not true of secured debt. If you want to keep your assets that are the underlying collateral for a secured debt you must keep those pmts current.The idea that one can file bk, discharge high unsecured debt, get a fresh start all in unison is not within the realm of reality.Remember it is the ‘fresh start’ not the ‘head start.’I hope this adequately covers the question at hand.

  7. What I meant to convey is that idea that one can file bk, discharge high unsecured debt, get a fresh start and KEEP a high or even a good FICO score all in unison is not within the realm of reality.Even if you DO come out with a 600+ FICO you will still have a bk tradeline with a date attached to it….that, depending on what Chapter you filed, remains for 7-10 years.I personally know many with 2 years post-bk rebuilding achieving decent FICOs still being declined due to a bk tradeline.I have never seen anyone post bk discharge with a 680+ FICO….or even heard rumor until the post above. It is highly suspect, IMO.

  8. Manatees, thanks for those two posts. Anon, there you have it. That’s the explanation from the bankruptcy attorney I was talking about.

  9. Thanks for the explanation…but just think a little bit:what is better 20 derogatory items,if someone not current with the payments,or just one single derogatory item-bankruptcy?…Much easier to rebuild credit having single derog. item,than twenty of them..right?And as you know no IIB things can be reported to credit bureaus.And I do not think is secret for everybody,that bankruptcy ”tradeline” can be deleted from credit reports….

  10. Anon, of course IIB items are reported to credit bureaus. Not sure what you’re talking about.Elaborate a little more, please.

  11. Relief could be coming to a credit report near you. That’s right. Credit-reporting agencies have been ordered to deal with discharged debt appropriately. The agencies have until tomorrow to get compliant. From the Wall Street Journal: Dealing With Debt That Refuses to DieA recent court order requires the three major credit-reporting bureaus — Experian Group Ltd., Equifax Inc. and TransUnion LLC — to clean up the credit files of millions of consumers who have filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy. The problem: Old debts, which are typically forgiven by the courts in a bankruptcy filing, are still being reported as active on many consumers’ credit reports.The judge for the case, David O. Carter of the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California, has given the bureaus until Oct. 1 to revamp their systems. Experian and TransUnion say they have already updated their credit files to be compliant with the court order, while Equifax declined to comment. TransUnion also sent notices to some customers saying they ‘may experience a slight change’ to their credit scores if any of their accounts are updated because of a bankruptcy.

  12. No, Anon. That’s not what it means. You are misinterpreting it. What’s happening is that creditors are not reporting the accounts properly. Instead of showing them as IIB and closed, many are being reported as open and NOT IIB. That’s what the problem is.The credit bureaus need to make sure that IIB’d items are coded that way.

  13. Do you really believe 20 IIB, -0- balance Trade Lines are not derogatory? If so you need to continue your credit repair studies. AS stated earlier they’re better than COs and lates PLUS the bk TL and also the judgement TLs that haven’t been vacated yet….but not by 100 FICO points.Deleting a bk as a public record is getting tougher and tougher due to the accessibility of PACER. It is easy to validate a bk PR if you have someone’s name and SS#.Three years ago more people got lucky…I haven’t seen more than one in 2008. In 2009 creditors are almost assuming an applicant has a bk in the woodpile. So it is pure BS that bks are easily deleted from people’s CRs.I totally agree with CM’s on point explanation of the judge’s order to the three CRAs.I would really like to see someone’s true FICO at 680 immediately post bk discharge…it would be a first in my career!

  14. I obviously agree with Manatees here. Also, it typically takes at least 3 years for a person to recover from a BK — in terms of FICO score. I’ve seen friends reach 700 about three years out. That seems to be about the earliest I’ve seen it.

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